Curse

urania · Aug 14, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Atm the retarded A/mo dancing daggers sin seems to be more popular than the old time number-1-nub-choice - the sp sin! ;o

or for caster, esp monk shutdown, the great A/Me shadow shroud+shame+ (of course) deadly paradox greatness.

nugzta · Aug 14, 2007, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Leave the current system as it is but TA gives 3-4 glad points for 10 consec wins.

Reason: This makes TA to be more effective way in gaining title than RA, hence giving incentive for players to move to TA instead in order to achieve the title effectively.

OR

Make 2 RA:
Beginner's RA - gives more balthazar factions but no glad point given
Normal RA - the same RA with glad point

Reason: There are two groups here; people play for fun and people play for title. Beginner's RA is mostly likely leaver-free because there is nothing to farm there (hence play just for fun, testing builds, etc). In addition, it will help new players to unlock things faster. While the normal RA will likely be the same as the current one, all the pros/farmers dont mind with leavers anyway.

Master Ketsu · Aug 14, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

As someone who has gladiator ( Deadly glad ) , I feel I should comment

Quote:

Proposal 1
More regular progess:
• Every win gives you 1 point.
• Players get points for streaks. Players get 5 points for each 5 consecutive wins.
Updating Current Title Holders:
• Multiply current player points by 30.
• Multiply each rank by 20

Horrible.

This would destroy the skill needed to get the gladiator title. Its far to easy to win a simple first round over and over again through luck wins. Even the worst builds will win 1 or 2 consecutives . Changing the glad title to this would make the glad title just another grind title rather then a skill based title. It would destroy the prestige it holds. The entire reason the glad title is seen as a skill based title is because it REQUIRES consecutive wins, not just makes it easier. Take away the requirement for consecutive wins, and you take away the part of the title that made it worth anything.

/unsigned

/unsigned

/UNSIGNED

Quote:

Proposal 2
• Every 5 wins gives you 1 point
• Every additional 5 consecutive wins gives you 2 points.
Updating Current Title Holders:
• Multiply current player points by 4
• Multiply each rank requirement by 3

Proposal 3
• Every 5 wins gives you 1 point
• Every additional 5 wins gives you a bonus point (plus the original 1 for 5 wins). 10 wins = 2 total points, 15 = 3 total points, etc. This would be capped at 3 or 4 for every 5 win streak to keep it from getting out of control.
• Multiply current points by 5
• Multiply each rank by 4

This is actually OK. At least the requirement to win consecutively is still their, as long as glads doesn't become a grind title its fine. Personally I prefer Proposal 3 since its rewarding those who had glads before, and it rewards those who can get 30+ wins in a row, something the old system lacks, which makes up for lowering the win streak to 5.

I prefer the old system over proposal 2. It adds nothing to the title other then making it easier.

Personally I see nothing wrong with the glad title. Its really fine the way it is, and needs no change. But if you must change it proposal 3 is the best option since it actually adds some functionality to the title. Proposal 2 is OK, and Proposal 1 is a terrible idea that should die in the lava pits on perdition rock never to be seen or spoken of again.

My own proposal would Be keeping the old system For RA ( 10 wins, get a point, Go to TA ) and then changing TA to proposal 3. Also, add a ladder to TA, no reason HvH should have one and not TA.

Cherng Butter · Aug 14, 2007, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...32&postcount=2

overlook this, in this is my suggestion for imo the best way, to solve everything around the gladiator Title and its problems with leavers/leechers, that will keep the title fair for everybody, not only 24/7 farmers oO
.
There's absolutely no need, to raise max needed pointy by ridiculous multipliers

Your suggestion is completely bogus. So you're saying, just because there's no way you can possibly reach r10 gladiator because it's hard?

"With option 1, the title gets ridiculous high amounts of points that u need to reach max rank ...who the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO will fight 200000 pvp fights to gecome a legendary gladiator ...who the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO will do this ? right !!! nobody .."

You realize that it's insanely easy to gain points with option 1 (though it's a worthless option) and points get multiplied?

"solution 2 will be no real help too and solution 3 is the horriblest solution of all 3, who will reach 15 wins in a row ??? oO."

You don't explain what's wrong with option 2...and are you serious? Plenty of people get 15 streaks or more...

I understand that Guild Wars is more of a casual rather than grinding online game, and I can accept that...but I can ALSO accept that I will never reach r10 gladiator. Just because something is out of reach for you doesn't mean it should be changed.

"Set Max number of fights for max title to 10000
Let players receive when they win 2 points, players which lose 1 point, who leaves 0 and NO EXTRA POINTS for WINNING ROWS !!!
Thats the best solution of all and by FAR THE MOST SIMPLE
It will reduce the problems to only 1 > leechers, because there will be no reason then to leave anymore, when there exists no bonus points for win row, and no reason to leave, because its regardless, of u win or not, both teams get points, the winners get only 1 more
And 5000-10000 fights for max title are a humanous sum, that can reach everybody, players of opportunity too !!!"

And you solution actually introduces more grind. Basically the title becomes a "who can play the most RA games" title...yeah, really prestigious there...

Narayanese · Aug 14, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

I'm for proposal 1.
It goes some way to return RA to the way it was before leaving glad point farmers took over, but still rewards people for playing. Promoting grind isn't bad, promoting stuff like leaving until a good team and sync-joining is.
I'm tired of getting teams that leave half the tme.

Vel · Aug 14, 2007, 04:44 PM // 16:44

I like Prop 1 because, as a gladiator you are on your own technically. So, you should get rewards for each win. This will solve the issue of "no monk-leave now" tradition in RA. However, as many pointed out including myself in the other thread it may lead to promote afk/passive farming of points.

I don't think any other proposals solve the problem of people leaving. So, my suggestion will be to award points to the people who are actively engaged in the battle; this will be similar to xp rewards in pve. if you don't do jack, you don't get points. I also expect to see a lot more emoting in RA as people will try to prove their worth before or after match...will be quite annoying if that happens <lol>.

However, no suggestion will be perfect as being human we have the tendency of doing the best as well as the worst. How will you counter a player joining the match but does not do anything effective at all? Nothing. So, you hope that with prop 1 there will be a strong incentive for everyone to do at least something to win the match at hand. It is the best trade-off compared to other props.

Having a set of emotes comparable to HA for RA, champion titles or combos with unique glowing emotes will be pretty cool. I believe, this has already been photoshopped and suggested by another poster in a different forum. I like that idea to promote PvP in GW. How long can u keep doing the same thing in HA to get the glowing emotes? Some variations and alternatives will really be nice.

- Vel

Orange Milk · Aug 14, 2007, 05:21 PM // 17:21

*sigh*

When will some of you people see that Prop 1 is complete shit. Rewarding people for showing up is just plain dumb.

It's like saying that since you have owned prophicies for 3 months you are now Ascended, and at 6 months you have automatically been transported to completeing the game. All you had to do was own the game and show up and POW after awhile you win.

I'm tired of giving examples, I'm tired of Heros, im tired of the Idea to fix RA/TA is to make it easier. IF getting Glad points is made so its easier to do then TA will be totally empty 24/7. Its already easier to do in RA and when its easier why the hell would anyone ever go to TA.

If this poop on a stick ever goes live I'm going to RA with the build from the box and Hamsring/firestorming my Warrior all the way to Glad rank 50 with one of the worst builds EVER by just showing up all day everyday. Honestly these 3 proposals are even worse than that build.

Sab · Aug 14, 2007, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyGiant

This idea was bought up earlier, but dismissed because it means RA teams won't enter TA since the title tracks are different. I put up a proposal 4 for different reward ratios in post #45 that should solve some problems I believe on the other hand.

Good point, hadn't thought of that earlier. But, I don't see that as much of an problem - people already leave when they get to TA because there's a good chance you'll be rolled by a decent team within 5-10 games. The main point though, I agree, is that TA should be distinguished somehow as it is an organised arena and it should give a greater or a different reward from RA.

AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PROPOSAL 1 IS COMPLETE TRASH. DO NOT EVER, EVER IMPLEMENT THIS. PLEASE.

FoxBat · Aug 14, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

The main point though, I agree, is that TA should be distinguished somehow as it is an organised arena and it should give a greater or a different reward from RA.

Ditto. It takes a bit more than luck to win in TA consistently.

urania · Aug 14, 2007, 05:45 PM // 17:45

things like this http://gw.gamona.de/forum/showthread.php?t=319357 make me cry.

Aera · Aug 14, 2007, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

things like this http://gw.gamona.de/forum/showthread.php?t=319357 make me cry.

That forum is full with PvE "players" -- they're really bad at PvP therefore they want it to be easier to get the titles.

...sigh

Master Ketsu · Aug 14, 2007, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vel

I like Prop 1 because, as a gladiator you are on your own technically. So, you should get rewards for each win. This will solve the issue of "no monk-leave now" tradition in RA. However, as many pointed out including myself in the other thread it may lead to promote afk/passive farming of points.

The amount of leavers lost would be likely be nothing in comparision to the amount of afk'rs gained.

If you ignore that fact that proposal 1 destroys the skill requirement of the glad title and look at it squarely as a way to stop leavers, its still a bad idea. Its like running out of battery power when using a portable radio, so you switch the batteries around so it still lasts for a little while longer. Problem: Your still running out of batteries.

All proposal 1 will do is change the leavers into afk farmers, and possible attract even more afk farmers who normally wouldnt even do RA. Problem: You still have players who arent playing the game.

And "you are on your own technically. So, you should get rewards for each win. " makes no sense. Anyone can get 1 win. Your not "on your own" any more or less when winning 1 match or on a 10 win streak, your still essentially relying on your team. Your reasoning would only make sense in a 4 v 1, which is near impossible. Ive only managed to win 4 v 1 six times or so, and all of those were flukes.

Keithark · Aug 14, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

I think option one is the best and her is why:

1) people would still leave if you require a 5 win streak

2) I don't think it devalues the HIGH RANKS in the title track because if you increase the points by a factor of 20 then you would have to play so much to reach level 5 and above that you would have to get good just thru experience

3) As it stands now getting Glad points are too difficult for someone who is new to PvP so they attempt it a while and then give up and go back to PvE, but with the change they would know that they were gaining ground and therefore stay and become better and eventually they may grow to like PvP and get into more organized PvP such as GvG, Ta, and HA

4) I was not around from the beginning so I am not sure but I have been told that a lot of the people running around with the title got it by farming the npc's....wonder how many of those people are the ones here bitching about the title being "easier" to get?

Other suggestions/opinions:

1) Make points double in TA, it is harder and does require more teamwork and skill

2) don't listen to the nonsense about how it takes NO skill to get glad points in RA because that is BS..I have not done much PvP at all, but it took me about 3 times as long to get my first 3 points than it did to get my next 7 so as my skill level goes up points come faster so skill IS a factor in RA's as it is everywhere else.

3) do the 1st option and then add a line that says if you leave during a fight (not counting when waiting on next match) you lose a point. That way people would still do RA's because you can get a point per win and nobody would leave because if they did then they know they would lose a point they already got.

Aera · Aug 14, 2007, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

2) I don't think it devalues the HIGH RANKS in the title track because if you increase the points by a factor of 20 then you would have to play so much to reach level 5 and above that you would have to get good just thru experience

and

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

3) As it stands now getting Glad points are too difficult for someone who is new to PvP so they attempt it a while and then give up and go back to PvE, but with the change they would know that they were gaining ground and therefore stay and become better and eventually they may grow to like PvP and get into more organized PvP such as GvG, Ta, and HA

are kind of a paradox. It WILL devalue. Why? Because the Gladiator title isn't easy to get! Making it easier to get WILL devalue the title. If you've PvE'd for 2 years, you should still have knowledge of the game and you will succeed in PvP if you use your brains and are generally good at the game. You have to EARN the title, not aquire. That's what value is about.

So basically all the proposals are junk.

_SiO_ · Aug 14, 2007, 06:46 PM // 18:46

First thing i have to say is:

Dont fix something that, doesnt have to be fixed!

and in this case its the glad title!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Within a few weeks we will be implementing a system that takes action against players who continually leave...if they decide to join a different team.

you guys want to solve the problem with the wrong "medicine", it would be like giving someone who has syphilis a asperine. but in this case i would even say that your cure is much worser then the sickness.

if u want to punish leavers, then ensure that they cant rejoin for a longer period of time, like 10 ++ minutes, i would even prefer 30 minutes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

The intention of this change is not to make the Gladiator Title easier to achieve, the designers are simply trying to change the way one acquires that title so that the system no longer punishes, or wastes the time of, those who stay on a team that is unlikely to have long winning streaks. The required points-per-rank in the title track would be increased to reflect the increase to the amount of points being given, and current title holder’s number of Gladiator Points would be increased proportionately as well.

thats my favourite part. like some people here said before, you are -->contradictory<--.

really, i dont understand your logic, you claim that gaining experience is a waste or time?!
imo, even if you lose, you get exp, because you have the opportunity to learn from your mistakes... if you learn, then you wont make the same mistake again, that means, you became better... isnt it about to get better?
improve your skill?
or do i have some totally wrong understanding of that concept?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Proposal 1,2,3

like ive said before, DON'T "fix" the glad title, because it works already FINE!

if you guys mod it like mentioned in P1, u turn the TA/RA into a mindless grinding area!
if you guys mod it like mentioned in P2&3 it wouldnt change anything!
so why even bother changing anything?

the changes you make, would just turn the glad title into a another worthless title...

if u want to help RA, seperate it from TA!
cut the connection between them...
make a new title only for RA, and all will be happy... (even with the system u mentioned in P1... i dont really care...)
-->Punish<-- the leavers...

IF u want to help TA(imo you guys dont gas about TA)
- give us new maps
- give us a ladder (+prizes)
- give us tournaments (+prizes)
- give us emote's

i cant believe that bot commanding aka HvH is in your eyes more worth then TA, but you have prove it, the HvH has a ladder, tournaments and prizes, the TA has nothing aka shit...

//edit//
if u consider all facts (all what was sayed by arena net employees etc) you will came to this conclusion:
its NOT about the leavers, or anything else, its just about MAKING the titel farmable (one of the many ways to please pve nubs), thats the true intention of anet, and nothing else...

Hayashi · Aug 14, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

not 1 pls. thats all =D

Master Ketsu · Aug 14, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

3) As it stands now getting Glad points are too difficult for someone who is new to PvP so they attempt it a while and then give up and go back to PvE, but with the change they would know that they were gaining ground and therefore stay and become better and eventually they may grow to like PvP and get into more organized PvP such as GvG, Ta, and HA

Pve newbies should come to pvp because its fun, not for title grinding. The entire appeal behind Hero-Glad-and champion titles is that they take skill to achieve, and are not as grindable as their PvE counterparts. Theirs no need to change something that technically offers no in-game benefit other than having it easier to achieve. The difficulty in pvp titles is the entire point of pvp titles.

Its supposed to be hard.

kvndoom · Aug 14, 2007, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Botters rejoice!!!

10 ENTER BATTLE
20 IF BATTLEOVER = 1 THEN 10 ELSE 20
30 END

If you though the [moa] bots were bad, just wait if they give points per win. Very, very bad idea.

Do your part! Vote "NO" to Proposition One!

Keithark · Aug 14, 2007, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Quote:

I have not done much PvP at all

Please do not comment on Pvp if you dont pvp that much. You have no idea how much option 1 would destroy the glad title.

I did not request nor do I need your permission to post....and one reason I have not PvP'd is because there is not a area in which to learn PvP (positioning, best skills and combo's to use, who to attack, how not to overextend, etc) except RA and as the title trakc is now the ONLY reason to be there as a PvP Noob is to gain skill, this is not enough of an incentive for me or most people. If the change makes it more likely that more people will learn to PvP then I would think you PvP only players would be happy because it would generate a larger PvP crowd. There must be a place for people new to PvP to go and learn and it must have some other reward than just gaining expertise. This change will help with that. I see all the time posts on here that say "look at PvP there is nobody there anymore" QQ well it is because noobs are too far behind the curve and not enough reason to catch up, this will provide that reason IMO

Hayashi · Aug 14, 2007, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

I did not request nor do I need your permission to post....and one reason I have not PvP'd is because there is not a area in which to learn PvP (positioning, best skills and combo's to use, who to attack, how not to overextend, etc) except RA and as the title trakc is now the ONLY reason to be there as a PvP Noob is to gain skill, this is not enough of an incentive for me or most people. If the change makes it more likely that more people will learn to PvP then I would think you PvP only players would be happy because it would generate a larger PvP crowd. There must be a place for people new to PvP to go and learn and it must have some other reward than just gaining expertise. This change will help with that. I see all the time posts on here that say "look at PvP there is nobody there anymore" QQ well it is because noobs are too far behind the curve and not enough reason to catch up, this will provide that reason IMO

Exactly, when i was a pvp noob it was an incentive because the title is HARD to reach. Thats what makes it a worthy goal. We don't want pvp players who just aim for easy to pick up pvp titles. If you make the title much easier. You'll have pvp-wannabes farm it, then leave when they are continued being rejected by top brass gvg guilds.

Not enough reason to catch up? Their own fault for not taking enough time to learn? And there is a place to get the intro to pvp, its called AB. But you know why people dont care about AB? Because pvp noobs can get titles on it easy, and thats why its worth jack in gvg guild resumes. If you're going to make gladiator title worthless, then itll just become another AB, then they will lose their newfound "incentive" and go back to PVE anyway.

It takes skills AND willpower to become a good player. We're not here to spoon feed pvp-wannabes.